Thursday, 21 September 2017

Battle Report 118- 2000 pts White Scars vs Crimson Fists

This week's battle report is the first outing for my White Scars in 8th edition, where they would be facing off against Maurice's Crimson Fists. I had played Maurice's great looking Crimson Fists army with my Deathwatch, but have not tried them with my Scars yet, so was really looking forward to seeing how they would perform with the new codex. 

My army consisted of:
Battalion Detachment
Captain- Bike, Teeth of Terra, Master-crafted Boltgun (C)
Librarian- Force Sword (L1)
10 Tactical Marines- Bolters, Meltagun (TS1)
Rhino- Storm Bolter (R)
5 Scouts- Camo Cloaks, Sniper Rifles (S1)
5 Tactical Marines- Bolters, Flamer (TS2)
Razorback- Twin Assault Cannon (Rb)
10 Sternguard- Special Issue Bolter (S2)
Drop Pod- Storm Bolter (DP)
5 Devastators- 4 Missile Launchers, Armorium Cherub (D)

Outrider Detachment
Librarian- Terminator Armour, Force Stave, Storm Bolter (L2)
5 Scout Bikers- Twin Bolters, Shotguns (SB)
5 Bikers- 2 Grav Guns, Twin Bolters (B1)
4 Bikers- Twin Bolters (B2)
2 Attack Bikes- Multi-meltas (AB)
10 Assault Marines- Flamer, Sergeant with Power Fist (AS)

7 Command Points

For my first foray with the White Scars in 8th edition, I decided to take a mix of units. The army was obviously led by a Captain on a Bike. I took the Teeth of Terra to give him a boost in his attacks. I then took a couple of Librarians, one on foot and one in Terminator armour. For my troops choices, I took two Tactical Squads in transports and a unit of Scout Snipers for some character killing action. The Sternguard in a Drop Pod were another useful addition, as they have access to some great Bolters for killing other Marines and a very useful Stratagem. A unit of Devastators with Missile Launchers would allow me to take on armoured threats.

An outrider detachment would provide the typical White Scars elements that I am used to fielding; two units of Bikers, a unit of Scout Bikers, two Attack Bikes and a unit of Assault Marines. These would provide some very mobile units and some potent firepower for my army.

The Watch Captain was my Warlord and took the Tenacious Survivor warlord trait. The Terminator Librarian took Veil of Time and Might of Heroes. The other Librarian took Fury of the Ancients and Null Zone.

Maurice's army consisted of:
Battalion Detachment
Pedro Kantor (PK)
Lieutenant- Master-crafted Bolter, Power Fist (L)
6 Sternguard Veterans- Plasma Pistol, Power Sword, 2 Combi-meltas, 2 Combi-flamers (St)
5 Vanguard Veterans- 5 Storm Shields, 3 Thunder Hammers, 2 Power Fists (VV)
Apothecary (A2)
Company Ancient- Power Sword (A1)
5 Scouts- Combi-plasma, Bolters (S1)
5 Scouts- Combi-plasma, Bolters (S2)
5 Scouts- Combi-melta, Bolters (S3)
5 Scouts- Camo cloaks, Bolters, Missile Launcher (S4)
5 Devastators- 4 Missile Launchers, Armorium Cherub (D1)
5 Devastators- 4 Missile Launchers, Armorium Cherub (D1)
Rhino- Storm Bolter (R)
Razorback- Twin Heavy Bolters (Rb)
Landspeeder Storm- Heavy Bolter, Cerberus Launcher (LS1)
Landspeeder Storm- Heavy Bolter, Cerberus Launcher (LS2)
Landspeeder Storm- Multi-melta, Cerberus Launcher (LS3)

An MSU Marine army featuring a lot of Scouts, fast vehicles and some potent firepower. This would be a nice challenge for my White Scars army and I would be interested to see how it turns out. Maurice's warlord was Pedro Kantor. NOTE: Neither of us noticed that a Landspeeder Storm can no longer be armed with a Multi-melta.

For the mission, we were playing Spoils of War with table quarters deployment. Spoils of War allows you to steal your opponent's "Secure Objective X" cards, which would be great for my highly mobile White Scars. We placed the objectives as shown below:

Maurice won the roll for deployment and chose his table quarter. The deployment order was as follows:
  1. White Scars Devastators
  2. Landspeeder Storm
  3. White Scars Scouts
  4. Landspeeder Storm
  5. Drop Pod (Sternguard)
  6. Crimson Fists Vanguard Veterans (reserve)
  7. Assault Marines (reserve)
  8. Crimson Fist Scouts 
  9. Scout Bikers
  10. Crimson Fist Scouts
  11. White Scars Rhino (Tactical Marines)
  12. Landspeeder Storm
  13. White Scars Razorback (Tactical Squad and Librarian)
  14. Crimson Fists Razorback (Devastators)
  15. Terminator Librarian (reserves)
  16. Crimson Fists Devastators
  17. Bike Squad
  18. Crimson Fist Devastators
  19. White Scars Captain
  20. Crimson Fist Rhino (Sternguard, Pedro Kantor, Apothecary, Lieutentant)
  21. Attack Bikes
  22. Company Ancient
I deployed my Bike squads and faster elements far forward to try and get a charge on the first turn. The Devastators and Sniper scouts were deployed further back to hold the objectives and use their long range firepower. Maurice decided to also deploy aggressively, deploying far forward with his transports and Scout units. The two Devastator Squads and the Company Ancient deployed further back in the ruins for some added protection, while maintaining a good field of fire. 

Maurice failed to seize the initiative and I took the first turn. 

In turn 1, I drew Defend Objective 1, Secure Objective 4 and Defend Objective 6. 

The forces of the White Scars advanced on the enemy army, only the Scouts and Devastators remaining in position to bring their firepower to bear. The Bikers and transports split between each flank, moving to engage the enemy Marines.

The Drop Pod carrying the Sternguard arrived, landing beside the enemy Devastators.

The Attack Bikes opened fire on the Razorback in front of them, missing with both their Multi-melta shots, but managing to do three wounds with their bolters that failed to get past the armour. The Devastators fired their Missiles at the Razorback, wounding it twice and doing 9 damage on the vehicle. The White Scars Razorback added its firepower, but the twin Assault Cannons failed to do any damage on the enemy vehicle. Finally, the Scouts fired at the Razorback, hoping to kill it off, but they failed to do any damage.
The Scout Bikers opened fire at the Scout in the ruins, killing two with their Bolter shots. The Shotguns of the squad failed to do any damage.

On the other flank, one unit of Bikers opened fire on the Scouts in the ruins, killing two with their Bolter shots. The Squad fired their Grav Guns at the Rhino, but failed to do any damage. The Rhino added its firepower, killing one more of the squad. The other Bike squad fired at the Scout, wounding five times, but this time failing to get past their armour. The Captain fired his Bolters at them, but failed to do any damage.

The Sternguard fired at one of the Crimson Fists' Devastator Squads, using the Masterful Marksmanship stratagem (+1 to wound) to kill four of the squad. The Drop Pod added its firepower, but could no do any more damage. The nearby Ancient compelled the dead Devastators to fire. Three Frag missiles stuck the squad, hitting 10 times and wounding 3 times, but failing to get past the armour of the Sternguard.

In the charge phase, the Captain and Bikers assaulted the Scouts on the right flank. The Razorback charged the other unit of Scouts, but the Scout Bikers failed to make the distance. The Attack Bikes charged the Razorback, while the Sternguard managed to assault the Devastators, thanks to the use of a single Command Point re-roll. The squad fired Frag Missiles at the advancing Sternguard, hitting only once with 15 shots, and doing no harm.

The Sternguard struck at the Devastators, killing two in the fight phase. The Ancient once more inspired the two casualties to strike in their death throes, but failed to do any harm. The White Scars Captain struck down the two Scouts facing him with ease. The Attack Bikes attacked the Razorback and actually managed to bring it down, two of the squad inside perishing as they emerged from the wreck. The White Scars Razorback did no harm to the Scouts.

The remaining Devastators attacked the Sternguard, managing to kill two of the squad. In the morale phase, Maurice passed all his tests.

At the end of my turn, I scored First Blood and Secure Objective 4. I chose to discard Defend Objective 1.

In his first turn, Maurice drew Secure Objective 5, Mission Critical Objective (Objective 3) and Secure Objective 3.

Pedro Kantor led his unit out of the Rhino to engage the White Scars Sternguard Marines, while the two Landspeeder Storms moved up on the objective. The other Landspeeder Storm moved up on the Drop Pod. The Devastators fell back from the combat with the Sternguard.

The Landspeeder Storm fired its Multi-melta at the Drop Pod, but it failed to hit. The Cerberus Launcher fired at the Sternguard, killing one of the squad. The Scouts inside the transport fired their Bolters at the Sternguard, killing two of the squad.

The Crimson Fists turned their weapons on the White Scars Sternguard, killing one with the combi-flamer, two with the combi-meltas and the plasma pistol killed one. The Ancient fired at the Sternguard with a Frag Grenade, killing one of them.

Pedro Kantor fired at the Bikers, wounding them once. The Lieutenant fired the Primarch's Wrath at the Bikers, killing one of the squad. The Rhino added its firepower, but failed to do any damage.

The Landspeeder Storm fired at the Scout Bikers, wounding them once. The squad inside fired at them. The Sergeant overcharged his Combi-plasma, killing one of the Bikers, while the rest of the Bolters did one more wound. The second Landspeeder Storm and Scouts fired at the Scout Bikers, only managing to wound them once with their combined firepower.

The Devastators on the right flank fired at the Attack Bikes, wounding them once with their Heavy Bolters. The lone Devastator in the ruins fired at the White Scars Rhino, hitting but failing to wound.

In the charge phase, the Rhino assaulted the White Scars Bikers and the Ancient charged the Sternguard.

The Rhino failed to do any damage to the Bikers, while the Ancient killed one of the Sternguard. In reply, the Bikers managed to put a wound on the Rhino, while the Scouts did no damage on the White Scars Razorback. In the morale phase, the Sternguard were wiped out.

At the end of his turn, Maurice scored Mission Critical Objective and Objective 3. I also scored Maurice's Secure Objective 5 and Defend Objective 6.

White Scars- 5
Crimson Fists- 2

A good start for the White Scars. Some nice cards had seen me go up with an early lead.

In turn 2, I drew Hold the Line (had 3 of my units and no enemy units within my deployment zone), Mission Critical Objective (control Objective 3) and Supremacy (hold 3 objectives). This was likely to be a big scoring turn for me.

The White Scars Captain led the Bikers towards the Crimson Fists' Sternguard, joined by the Tactical Squad as they disembarked from the Rhino. The Attack Bikes and Scout Bikers moved to encircle the Landspeeder Storms.

The Librarian and Tactical Squad disembarked from the Razorback and moved to engage the Devastators, while the Razorback fell back from combat.

The other unit of Bikers and Rhino moved into my deployment zone, while the White Scars reserves arrived, the Assault Squad and Librarian landing next to the Sternguard.

In the psychic phase, the Librarian in Terminator Armour cast Veil of Time on the Assault Marines. He then cast Smite, taking a wound from the Apothecary. The other Librarian cast Fury of the Ancients, wounding each of the Landspeeder Storms once. He then also cast Smite, killing two of the Scouts in the ruins.

The Devastators fired their Missiles at the Landspeeder Storm, destroying it. The Scout Bikers fired their Bolters at the newly arrived Scout squad, killing four of the squad. They fired their Shotguns at the lone Scout in the ruins, but could not get past his 2+ armour save. The Attack Bikes fired their Multi-meltas at the enemy Rhino, wounding it once (thanks to a command point re-roll) and taking 3 damage from it. They fired their Bolters at the lone Scout in front of them and managed to kill him.

On the left flank, the Tactical Squad fired at the Devastators, killing three of them. The Librarian fired his Bolt Pistol at the lone Scout in the ruins, hitting and wounding. Maurice failed his 2+ cover save and the Scout perished.

On the right flank, the Tactical Squad fired their Meltagun at the Rhino, taking another three wounds from it. The rest of the squad targeted the enemy Sternguard with their Bolters, but failed to kill any.

In the charge phase, the Captain and Tactical Squad assaulted the Apothecary, the squad taking one wound from Overwatch fire. The Bikes and Assault Squad charged the Sternguard. The Librarian led the other Tactical Squad on an assault against the Devastators on my left flank. Pedro Kantor and the Lieutenant managed to heroically intervene in the main combat.

The White Scars Captain struck at the Apothecary, killing him. Maurice then used two Command Points to counter attack and Kantor struck at the Bikers. He got a whopping 8 attacks and wounded the Bikers four times. I passed one 6+ save and three Bikers perished.
The Assault Squad attacked the Sternguard. The regular Marines killed three of the Sternguard. The Sergeant managed to do a single wound, but this was time for Maurice to make his 6+ save.

The Librarian struck at the lone Devastator, killing him. The Crimson Fists then attacked back, the Sternguard killing one Assault Marine and the Lieutenant killing three Tactical Marines with his power fist (thanks to some incredible re-roll abilities he had in the area).

In the morale phase, the lone Biker fled the field. At the end of my turn, I scored Hold the Line, Supremacy for two points and two points for Mission Critical Objective.

In his turn, Maurice drew Secure Objective 6, No Prisoners (kill an enemy unit) and Emperor's Retribution (control an objective marker held by your opponent at the start of the turn).

One of the Landspeeder Storms retreated towards the ruins holding the Devastators, while the Ancient moved up toward the combat. The other Landspeeder Storm moved up towards the Librarian, while the Rhino moved up on the Attack Bikes. Finally, the Vanguard Veterans arrived, landing next to the massed combat.

The Sternguard opened the shooting phase by firing their pistols at the Assault Squad, but failed to do any damage. The Scouts in the Landspeeder Storm in front of the Librarian fired at him. The Sergeant's Combi-melta hit and wounded, but I made my invulnerable save. The Bolters of the squad failed to do any harm. Their transport then fired at the Librarian, the Multi-melta hitting and taking four wounds from him.

In the ruins, one squad of Devastators split their fire between the Drop Pod and Attack Bikes. Both missiles hit, but both failed to wound. The other Devastator fired at the Razorback, hitting and wounding, but I made my save.

The nearby Landspeeder Storm fired at the Attack Bikes, but failed to do any damage. The Scout squad inside fired on the Tactical Marines. The Sergeant's Combi-Plasma killed two of the squad, while the Bolters accounted for another of the White Scars Marines. The Rhino also fired at the Attack Bikes, but failed to do any damage.

In the charge phase, the Ancient assaulted the Assault Marines. The Vanguard Veterans also assaulted, succeeding after the use of a Command Point re-roll. The Rhino then charged the Attack Bikes and the Landspeeder Storm assaulted the Librarian.

The Vanguard Veterans struck at the Assault Marines, wiping them out. The Landspeeder Storm rammed the Librarian, wounding him once, but I made my save. Pedro Kantor then struck at the White Scars Captain, wounding him 3 times with his Power Fist. I failed all three of my Invulnerable saves and took 6 wounds. Fortunately, I made two Tenacious Survivor saves and the Captain survived the combat. He struck back, managing to wound Kantor twice after the use of a Command Point re-roll. The Lieutenant struck at the Captain, hoping to finish him off. He wounded twice, but fortunately, I made both invulnerable saves. The White Scars tactical squad attacked the Crimson Fists Sternguard, killing one of them. The Sternguard struck back, killing two of the Tactical Squad.

The Attack Bikes and Rhino did no damage on one another. Finally, the Librarian struck the Landspeeder Storm and took 3 wounds from it.

At the end of his turn, Maurice scored No Prisoner and I managed to steal his Secure Objective 6. He discarded Emperor's Vengeance.

White Scars- 11
Crimson Fists- 3

A great round of cards had seen me surge ahead in the maelstrom points. If I was Maurice, I might have send the Vanguard Veterans after my Devastators to try and secure objective 6. In addition, the Scouts in the Landspeeder Storm could have grabbed objective 3 from the Scout Bikers thanks to objective secured. This would have scored him D3 points for Emperor's Vengeance. Had he somehow got the other two landspeeder Storms to objective 2 held by the Bikers, he could have possible got that too, giving him D3+3 points and putting him back in the game.

In my third turn, I drew Secure Objective 2, Assassinate (kill an enemy character) and Psychological Warfare (have your opponent fail a morale test).

The Librarian, Captain, Attack Bikes and Tactical Squad fell back from combat with the Crimson Fists. The other Librarian and Tactical Squad moved up on the Devastators, joined by the Scout Bikers and Razorback.

In the psychic phase, the Librarian in Power Armour cast Smite, taking two wounds from the Rhino. He then cast Fury of the Ancients, destroying the Rhino. The other Librarian cast Smite, perilling on a double 6. I used a Command Point re-roll and managed to still roll an 11, killing 4 of the Vanguard Veterans.

The Devastators opened fire on the Landspeeder Storm on the right flank, wounding it 9 times and destroying it, killing one of the Scouts in the process. The Bikers opened fire on the Scouts, killing two more of the squad.

On the other flank, the Tactical Squad fired at the other Landspeeder Storm, wounding it once. The Razorback added its firepower, taking another 3 wounds from it. The Scout Bikers fired on the Devastators, killing two of the squad.

In the charge phase, the Tactical Squad assaulted the Landspeeder Storm, losing one of the squad to overwatch fire. The Librarian and Scout Bikers also assaulted the enemy transport, while the Attack Bikes charged the Devastators.

The Attack Bikes struck, killing the Armorium Cherub only. The Librarian missed with all of his attacks, but the Scout Bikers were able to kill off the Landspeeder Storm, killing one of the Scouts in the process.

At the end of my turn, Maurice passed all his morale tests. I scored Secure Objective 2 and discarded Psychological Warfare.

This turn, Maurice drew Psychological Warfare, Defend Objective 5 and Honour Your Chapter (kill an enemy character with one of your characters).

The Crimson Fists moved up on the White Scars positions, Pedro Kantor leading the charge.

The Devastator fired at the Tactical Squad in the ruins, killing two with a Frag Missile. The Scouts beside the Librarian fired at him. The Sergeant's Combi-melta hit (after a command point re-roll) and managed to slay him.
Pedro Kantor fired on the White Scars Bikers, wounding once. The Lieutenant then fired, hitting four times. He rolled a triple 1 to wound, then another set of triple 1's with his re-rolls! He did cause one wound, killing one of the Bikers.

On the right flank, the Crimson Fists Scouts fired at the Scout Bikers, killing two with an overcharged Combi-Plasma shot and one with the Bolters.

In the charge phase, the Vanguard Veteran assaulted the Bikers, being wounded once in overwatch, but Maurice made his save. Pedro Kantor and the Lieutenant also charge the Bikers. The Sternguard Marine and Ancient charged the Tactical Squad in the ruins. On the other flank, the Scouts assaulted the Librarian.

Kantor attacked the Bikers, killing two of the squad. I then used two command points to interrupt with the Librarian, who managed to kill a single Scout.

The Ancient killed one Tactical Marine, while the Sternguard Sergeant took out another two. The Scouts put four wounds on the Librarian, but his armour saved all but one of the attacks. The Devastator missed with his attack and was killed by the Attack Bikes.

At the end of his turn, Maurice scored no points. With time running out of the club night, we decided to call things there.

White Scars- 13 (inc. First Blood and Linebreaker)
Crimson Fists- 3
End of the game. 

A decisive win for the White Scars

Thanks to Maurice for another fun battle (I finally won one against his Crimson Fists!). As the first outing for the White Scars in 8th edition, it really could not have gone better.

The new Space Marine Stratagems are great and add some valuable boosts to the army. The Masterful Marksmanship Stratagem was very useful for causing maximum damage to the Devastators in my first turn, wiping out most of the unit and getting rid of a big threat to my vehicles.

Things went pretty well in this game. I was able to draw good cards, as well as stealing some of Maurice's objectives during the game. My army had a good mix of mobility and firepower to deal with most threat in the enemy army.

The Bikers and Scout Bikers were a solid unit. They are fast and can put out some good firepower, as well as being pretty durable.
The Sniper Scouts didn't really do much in the game. There were no characters that I could target and a lot of the time they were unable to wound the enemy unit.

The enemy army had some great units too. The buffs that Pedro Kantor provides are brillaint. Full re-rolls and +1A in 6" means the units can put out a lot of damage in combat. The Landspeeder Storms and Scouts inside can also put out a lot of firepower.

Overall, it was a fun game. I am looking forward to seeing how the White Scars will perform in my future games. 


  1. Well that was an interesting game!
    My thoughts:
    Snipers work best in larger numbers, you need some out of this world rolling for 5 guys to make a difference.
    Your mobility was a massive help - because it forced your opponent to make decisions he didn't want to - the vanguard as you said would have been better going after objective 6 when they arrived (and they should have arrived on turn 1 given your initial movement).
    Your opponent's list included some pretty sub-optimal units - landspeeders in particular I find pretty lacklustre this edition (the shooting penalty for moving seems particularly perverse here I think!).
    Kantor Rocks!

    1. Cheers for the commments Nick, can't disagree with too many of them!

      I haven't really been impressed with the unit of 5 snipers so far. As you say, they really need to be in larger units to have any sort of impact.

      I haven't really used Speeders much, but the -1 to hit when moving has a big impact on my Multi-melta Attack Bikes.

      And yes, Kantor does indeed rock!

    2. I've tended to take three units of 5 as my troops choices in a battalion, I can spread them out to force enemy reserves to drop in further out, they usually get a good cover save and with that many, they actually are a threat to enemy characters. Alternatively I could group them all close together and use them with Kantor for some really accurate sniping! If only marines had access to a +1 to hit modifier!

    3. The +1 to hit for moving is a big issue for a lot of units imthis edition. My valkyrie and vendetta seem to really struggle but don't think that dishing out exemptions is a good idea either. With the way things seem to be these days, I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of update to land speeders at some point, either stats wise or points wise, as a lot of people seem to rate them quite poorly.

    4. By +1 I actually meant -1!

    5. @Nick- I think three units of 5 are the way to go if you want to run sniper scouts. They are cheap enough to field three units and are actually pretty durable while in cover with camo cloaks.

      @Steven- I've used the Valkyrie once so far. Hitting on a 5+ while moving does really hurt it. I would love to see a reduction in Land Speeders, they are very expensive at the moment.

  2. The White Scars seem to have the mojo that your DeathWatch don't for 8th.

    I've been thinking about Speeders a lot, since I have a bunch of them, and have always liked using them. The penalty on their Heavy weapons, plus the loss of Deep Strike, seems to kill most of the ways I used to field them. What I've come up with so far are as static backfield Units with Typhoon Launchers and Heavy Bolters, or, since Index weapon options are still valid, going dual Heavy Flamer to ignore the penalty entirely. They both still seem kind of expensive for what they bring, tho.

    1. That's my issue too, I've got four (five if you include the Storm) and I just don't think I'll be using them outside of sub-optimal themed lists. The Typhoon Launcher is decent, but even then it brings nothing that other options in the codex don't do better. The more I look at it I'm sad to say the more I think it's perhaps the worst datasheet in the book. Heavy Flamers wouldn't be a bad option, but even then you'd have to get so close I doubt they would survive the retaliation at which point they become a very expensive suicide unit to hurt (probably) a cheap horde unit.

    2. Yeah, I've had quite a nice run with the White Scars at the moment (more reports to follow!).

      I'm not sure the Index version is still valid. I know they have said that you can use index units for models/units no longer in the codex, but I think the codex Land Speeder entry replaces the index one.

      It's a shame that the most valid use for the Land Speeder at the moment appears to be as a static firebase. Don't think that's the way its supposed to be.

    3. The article on Warhammer Community said it was perfectly legit to use options from Index Datasheets that weren't in the Codex. Just use the Points from the Codex. The specific example given was Dreadnought weapons that aren't in the Codex, but the same thing applies to any Unit that lost options in the Codex.

  3. Good game Mike, nice to see the Scars getting off on the right foot in 8th!

    Have you noticed that your games are any quicker in 8th? An obvious benefit of streamlining the rules was to make the games shorter but so far most of the batreps I have read seems to suggest games are just a long as they ever were.

    1. Honestly, I think they take about the same time as they did in 7th. The big benefit is not having to look stuff up as often now that I am getting used to the rules. Even towards the end of 7th, I was still having to look up the occasional rule or get clarification on something.

  4. Hi Mike, always enjoy your White Scars reports. Have you used/are you tempted by flamer bikers? i.e. 3x bikers with 2x flamers and a combi-flamer? From my few games, they're awesome (Vs T4 and lower). The range of the bike and the volume of fire is scary. Rapid fire bolters and flamers make folks think twice about charging too!

    1. Glad you enjoy them, there are more coming in the following weeks.

      I think Biker flamers are solid in this edition. I haven't tried them yet, as I don't have the models. Might need to replace some grav guns with some flamers and Plasma guns and get them out on the table.