tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2668255476316917252.post4800382919814066464..comments2024-03-25T20:55:48.523+00:00Comments on Didcot Wargames Club: GFTW Tournament Game 2: White Scars vs Grey KnightsMike (Didcot Wargames Club)http://www.blogger.com/profile/04136576868354842829noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2668255476316917252.post-22926516976926510182018-03-18T19:53:38.745+00:002018-03-18T19:53:38.745+00:00If more Tournaments used Kill Points in my local I...If more Tournaments used Kill Points in my local I think it would give Space Marines an often overlooked advantage in that department when it came to the list building phase.<br /><br />It’s one of the things I have a love hate relationship with the ITC rules, sure you can pick which secondaries best compliment ones own army from game to game, which is nice, but it also makes it so I’m never really forced into a truly difficult choice when it comes to list building.<br /><br />I think being able to modify ones own Secondaries is why certain army builds do so well in ITC and some armies suffer brutally (Imperial Knights), it’s interesting to see tournaments that are “straight from the book” and I really like it.bonesaww666https://www.blogger.com/profile/14326944296303868367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2668255476316917252.post-4605730054180633372018-03-17T20:19:57.912+00:002018-03-17T20:19:57.912+00:00Yeah, it really is a trade off between MSU, kill p...Yeah, it really is a trade off between MSU, kill points and command points. I'm going to be looking at a variation of the list that uses combat squads and a couple of Battalions to try and mitigate the kill points issue, while still allowing me to run MSU in other mission types. Mike (Didcot Wargames Club)https://www.blogger.com/profile/04136576868354842829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2668255476316917252.post-24911032912943795372018-03-17T14:52:46.290+00:002018-03-17T14:52:46.290+00:00Even the armies that you just listed all have ways...Even the armies that you just listed all have ways around just tossing small units into meat grinders.<br /><br />Orks can function just fine running giant blocks of infantry (and can actually “mob up” with the strategem, further mitigating this issue... as can IG).<br /><br />It makes MSU less of a no brainer, even screen units become a calculated risk, 3 Units of scouts should be in every SM list, but nekkid and waiting to die, but in a Killpoint game they become a liability.<br /><br />It’s an excellent way to balance CP battery armies, sure the Maelstorm Missions didn’t really impact your game, but with two armies that were similar they become vitally important (either 2 Horde Armies or 2 Elite Armies).<br /><br />MSU is a better way to play 40k, it mitigates Moral losses, forces opponents into “overkilling” units and gives you superior objective control, pretending that Kill Points are bad because it goes against a specific army design (especially such a prevelant form of army composition) is a close minded way at looking at the Tactics of the Game from the list building perspective.bonesaww666https://www.blogger.com/profile/14326944296303868367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2668255476316917252.post-7517913796425069022018-03-13T17:19:30.255+00:002018-03-13T17:19:30.255+00:00@toonboy78 I could see where kill points add some ...@toonboy78 I could see where kill points add some balance for armies like Custodes or Grey Knights where holding and achieving objectives may be more difficult with less units on the table. So if a tourney mixes these, small elite armies have a chance to get an advantage in kill point games while possibly struggling in other scenarios. In the casual games I play, kill points are limitting when you have armies like guard, orks, tyranids, horde chaos, etc. that use unit sacrifice as a strategy. DAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08090659574178071006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2668255476316917252.post-1603060454083220272018-03-13T14:07:53.623+00:002018-03-13T14:07:53.623+00:00I would be interested to see how these armies matc...I would be interested to see how these armies matched up in terms of power levels. That might be a better mechanic for determining the match up between armies, but that is difficult when it comes to determining scores for the game. Mike (Didcot Wargames Club)https://www.blogger.com/profile/04136576868354842829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2668255476316917252.post-74845321666663610142018-03-13T14:06:31.674+00:002018-03-13T14:06:31.674+00:00Thanks, I did think it was a tough match up. There...Thanks, I did think it was a tough match up. There was so much Storm Bolter fire that my poor armour saves could not keep up. <br /><br />Kill points is a nice balancing factor in many missions. However, it does create situations such as this game, where in a maelstrom mission, you don't even need to focus on the maelstrom points. Ken just focused on wiping out my army for the game, with the maelstrom cards as a sort of afterthought. <br /><br />I could counter it with going for combat squads as you said. This would give me the flexibility to go after the MSU army if I wanted, but would give me an option for combating in this sort of game. I could probably do it with the loss of only a few command points (go for two Battalions). Mike (Didcot Wargames Club)https://www.blogger.com/profile/04136576868354842829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2668255476316917252.post-68629014984715569682018-03-13T13:08:06.159+00:002018-03-13T13:08:06.159+00:00the KP mechanic is there to limit people taking lo...the KP mechanic is there to limit people taking loads of small squads. just like the 6 objectives are there to stop deathstar armies.<br /><br />the more missions available the harder to get a fully balanced army and at some point you will get bad match up. that is why i like it so much as it makes it really hard to pick an army that will cover all missions and army match ups.toonboy78https://www.blogger.com/profile/06032744373751739974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2668255476316917252.post-75048737290341389712018-03-13T12:54:52.119+00:002018-03-13T12:54:52.119+00:00Tough loss, Mike! Good write up...I feel guilty r...Tough loss, Mike! Good write up...I feel guilty reading through for your opponent's Grey Knight strategies. I was pleased to see a game with the Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight armor having so recently painted my own...<br /><br />On the game, I agree that kill points are a poor and imbalanced mechanic given how the various factions are formed. DAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08090659574178071006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2668255476316917252.post-81153355665874512622018-03-13T12:41:51.838+00:002018-03-13T12:41:51.838+00:00Oh dear, that was a bit of a tough draw and brutal...Oh dear, that was a bit of a tough draw and brutal defeat.<br /><br />Unfortunately, the match up and mission didn’t suit your army, (this time).<br /><br />Your army seems very evenly spread with no “super” unit which is great for a lot of missions and against a lot of armies, but every now and then a combination will not work. Sometimes an army will have a uber unit like a primarch or a landraider etc and I don’t see how your army will directly deal with that threat.<br /><br />Yes as you mentioned some of this was down to a few mistakes you made but I think it would have still been a tough ask, given the match yup. <br /><br />While I appreciate you don’t like this mission as your army gives up a lot of kill points that’s the balancing factor of all the missions. Some mission suits your army, and some don’t.<br /><br />Your army generates a lot of CPs but gives up KPs. You could always combine units and get less CPs so when missions like this turn up you don’t give up a lot of KPs, but the option of combat squads are still there. <br /><br />As for ETC that is why you see these dedicated armies as everyone knows the missions so a reasonable focused army can be created which the only variable it has to deal with is the army it faces. Events like this one you attended and the ones local to me are far harder to choose an army for as at our we don’t know any missions until the day, and then we roll and it could be any of the 24!<br />toonboy78https://www.blogger.com/profile/06032744373751739974noreply@blogger.com